Last Updated on June 24, 2021 by

Drew Thomas Hendricks  7:41  

That makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, a lot in a lot of the smaller sites, they don’t have that proper schema markup so that you are found locally.

Marty McDonald  7:49  

but like what you just said, Yeah, like what you just said, if you if you talk to a brewery scheme of markup, and you know how the foundation for all your keywords is set up and make sure everything is siloed appropriately like they’re going ha you know, but like I understand exactly what you’re saying because you see it all the time. And what I tell everybody is, you know, get started, get what you need up, but then immediately start planning for the next phase, because the next phase is going to happen sooner than later. And I’ll also say, you know, seven years ago, even five years ago, even four years ago, you could start up that way and then be good for a little while now there’s so much other competition in craft beer and beverages that they’re getting a little bit faster. And one tip I’ll give everybody if you’re starting out, just run a Google Maps ad, you don’t spend that much money. It actually cuts through some of that noise because Google is trying to really move that platform to the top before local stuff and to help local businesses and you know, a couple 100 bucks a month in the Google map pack could help you tremendously.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  8:53  

Oh, absolutely. Especially if you’re trying to promote to your location. Mm hmm. Yep. Now for anyone running Google ads, or the map ads available nationwide.

Marty McDonald  9:02  

Good question. I think there’s some parameters around there. I’d have to ask my GMB person and maps person 100% for that, I wouldn’t know that right off the top of my head?

Drew Thomas Hendricks  9:11  

Yeah, I think there. Yeah, it’s definitely something to check. And it’s available in more and more areas, as we

Marty McDonald  9:16  

It’s changed so much over the last six months. That’s why I don’t want to put it in writing, so to speak on a podcast.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  9:22  

It’s almost changing weekly. So definitely checking absolutely, that those maps ads, if you can get them do them. For sure. Yeah. So going forward. So the other part about the book that really resonated with me was your yellow quote, they’re talking about how advertising used to be all about the message and the message resonating now it’s about the conversation. What advice would you give someone to make sure that this conversation evolved?

Marty McDonald  9:45  

Yeah, I that’s a great part to pull out of that because social media is exactly that, that. So if you’re just focusing on social, you know, I think a lot of breweries do a good job in creating conversations around their beer. I think it’s again, I’m on say it’s Easy peasy and do it the planet a little bit. But the one thing that most of them forget to do is ask for the sale. And once they kind of get there, they’re like, Alright, well, we need this, and we want to sell it. But we’re just continuing that conversation, right? So they do a really good job of making it fun, light-hearted, entertaining people, but they never go to the next step and go, Oh, yeah, we want to sell some of this. So ask for the sale. Right? So when you’re planning your conversations out there, you say you can new beer, great, put it out there, and you have like a teaser post where the conversation starts. But the key is, there’s moving them from that conversation around the beer and what what it tastes like or what was made from and all that moving them into the part where they’re gonna buy it, right. And sometimes it can be a little tricky. And that’s why you need to plan it out more in advance the conversation part how you want to continue that is you continually asked questions like, oh, user-generated content screen for that, for breweries, you can see somebody had posted, you know, having a beer at the brewery or they picked it up, picked up a four-pack, and then they posted a picture of it. And then you utilize that because they tagged you in it. But then also go Hey, Drew posted this thanks, Drew appreciate the support. You’re really likes the, you know, the hops that we used in this particular one, what do you enjoy about it right? And get a specific question. or, even better yet, on the sales aspect going, we actually have a limited run of, you know, cans running this weekend. So get your spot and you can even pre-order it. Right. That’s continuing the conversation, the sales, the first the first example is just continuing the conversation in the specific way. Drew mentioned the hops. So we’re going to continue that conversation. And then you want to keep them, you know, guide that conversation for, you know, the best way you can, because then you’re getting the responses that you want.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  11:49  

Absolutely. That’s it’s almost in marketing call, like, like going down the funnel, and treating the conversation as a funnel. And you’re absolutely right, too often breweries get stuck at that top where they’re just talking about the beer, and they’re talking about the pictures and they’re not really actually furthering that conversation down to where they’re, they’re gonna buy. 

Marty McDonald  12:15  

Yeah, he’s saying keep I mean, nurture is probably the right word. But it’s really kind of a an odd word to use in, in your marketing, I’ll say, is akin nurture them other ways, but like on social and having a conversation is just guiding them in touch so that they they go, Oh, yeah. All right. Now, that makes sense. And then they’re they’re already putting themselves in there like, Oh, yeah, well, I do want this beer and they only have, you know, 104 packs on Saturday. So I better go get this.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  12:35  

Absolutely. Now, I know, you work with a lot of craft brewery associations. And you present one of these meetups taught you when you get all the Brewers together. And you’re all and you’re teaching them and talking.

Marty McDonald  12:47  

Yeah, no, 100% like, you know, a couple of the things, you know, that come out of the relationships is just being there. You know, I mean, it’s one of those things where people forget sometimes that people want to work with people that they know, right? So going to those events tonight, marketing events, they’re all about beer, and I learned a ton. And being there and just getting involved and donating. No, in a good way kind of my time, right. And when I say donate, I don’t mean like, I’m just going hat in hand going to teach you about this. But I learned so much from hearing about different brewery processes and how breweries get started, and so on and so forth about that process. And then, you know, just giving them a little bit of wisdom in terms of marketing, just Hey, you might not have been thinking about this, but you might want to do this. It’s been great. I mean, it’s just paid back in so many different ways. The payback has been in referrals, other projects outside of beer, also working with breweries that are open to having the conversation where I’m using a warm relationship rather than knocking on doors or just going Hey, have you ever read my book, you know, since like that part of it’s been fun. And I’ve had to go to events in Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, Pennsylvania, where we’re based in New York, New Jersey, Maryland, out in Colorado, and California. And all those things that you learn, like through the crap for your community, like how good it is, number one, I think it’s one of the coolest small business type ideas, because they do a lot in the community. And they provide jobs. They’re very environmentally focused, for the most part. And they also bring people together. So there’s a sense of community around that, and I love it. So getting to go to all of them and just being the marketing guy every once in a while. It’s just kind of fun, because I learned so much. And then yes, led to other business and learning more about the beverage industry and some of the challenges that they have within, you know, within government affairs and in the lake has been just eye-opening and a heck of a lot of fun because we get to drink beer too.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  14:52  

Oh, absolutely. That’s awesome. So that you have the last year did any of these events turn virtual or were they just paused?

Marty McDonald  14:57  

Yeah, all of them all. A lot of them are paused. Many of them have brought back like a virtual event in the past six, eight months, I would say I would say since about August 2020. They just, you know, many of them push to have a virtual event of some sort. Yeah, but the majority of them were canceled and still cancel now, or in what the end of March of 2021, just kind of moving for new and forward and see, see what comes out of this. But I see some more things kind of popping up. And it seems like we’re moving in a direction looks like Fall, and hopefully, you know, a lot more will happen. And it’ll be fun to get back together. Because they were always fun. Everybody drinking beer, sharing beer, telling stories. Yeah, it’s a good time

Drew Thomas Hendricks  15:41  

on the winery side of the landscape, which I spend more time on the winery side than the craft brew side. All the events went virtual, the last virtual the last three, three months, there was about five of them, when he talked about the importance of actually being there and experiencing it and having those conversations and I’m not saying that the virtual format. They didn’t do an excellent job. Many of them are exceptional with the presentations, but I did miss that the hallway chalk, the the trade show floor, the happy hour that just wasn’t there that we would experience when they were live. And thankfully, it looks like a lot of them there. They are rescheduled to be live back in 2021 or 2022. Yeah, let’s hope so. When you’re not marketing craft breweries, and I know you love golf.

Marty McDonald  16:22  

Yes, that is true. I try playing that as much as I possibly can.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  16:27  

And I was on your podcast a few months ago. And you talked about this golf bag, the Durango you you tested, and you’re thinking about buying but you weren’t quite there yet.

Marty McDonald  16:37  

Yeah, and I haven’t gotten it yet. But it’s coming up close on the list. So what I did in the beginning of this year was every time that it make a certain sale for a company or hit a certain goal this year, I reward myself with a golf item. So last thing I just bought was I got fitted for a new putter. I bought a Scotty Cameron putter seven iron for probably like six, seven years, I’ve had the same putter since 1989, which I bought with my own money when I was 14 years old and went to Modells which is sporting goods store and I bought it off the rack for like 18 bucks. And I was just like I had other Putter’s throughout the years, but I would always just come back to that one. And it’s very simple JC Snead mount or mallet players just the played. And I loved it. I always I always played well with it. And then even when I would get a new putter, I would always buy like a I wouldn’t say it’s not cheap, but it seems high when I was spending like 100 bucks, 60 bucks just to test another one’s out and then I would trade them in because it just didn’t work out. Go back to the old one. So finally about two years ago, I started playing around with like nicer putters, and I was like, Whoa, this is totally a different feel like they’re weighted, you know, you can get fitted for them, see where you hit on there. And so I finally bought that. And that was a nice little investment. And then I have one more and then I’ll probably get the bag. I already have the bag designed. So that’s all just ready to go. As soon as I hit another goal, then I get that bag. It’s nice.

Drew Thomas Hendricks 18:06  

That’s great. What um bag company is that 

Marty McDonald  18:09  

It’s called Vessel. VESSEL they do all sorts of leather goods.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  18:12  

I gotta check it out.

Marty McDonald  18:15  

Pro bags to do okay,

Drew Thomas Hendricks  18:16  

I mentioned Marty and I we meet every or we met a couple times in Durango for a mastermind trip and where we talk shop and it’s a meeting of some of the top agencies run by Jason Swenk. And that was where we that was actually where I first met Marty back in Yeah, back in Atlanta.

Marty McDonald  18:33  

That’s right.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  18:34  

So based on kind of the conversation on social media, where we are today, what advice would you give a craft brewery on what they can implement tomorrow? Or what they should be starting to implement?

Marty McDonald  18:45  

Yeah, that’s a great question. You know, I think one of the first things I would tell any brewery Getting started is just call them under two years old is 100% need to be focused in on creating some sort of schedule for their content. And the reason is, is there’s twofold one, smart, number one. Number two is a lot of times when we would walk in to say they were looking for help, like what you find is a mess. Like you just, it’s, even if they have one person doing the marketing, these have no idea like, where stuff is going, what things are happening, they have a plan for like a release schedule, they have a plan for a couple other things that are going on around the beer in the brewery events, but never had like a marketing schedule. So it doesn’t have to be complex. But your marketing should follow a pattern and it should follow some sort of result that you can measure doesn’t matter whether you’re just looking for likes, whether you’re looking for whatever. So that’s number one, just start doing that. Number two, what I would say is even if you’re just starting out or you know under three years old, is look at different versions of paid advertising, not just on social but digital as a whole and start to leverage some of those things, even if it’s small budget, you know, like we were just talking about earlier in the podcast, you know, 100 bucks 200 bucks a month on Google Maps, if it’s available to you could go on way for your birthday. And people shy away from that, because not because they’re spending a couple bucks, but just don’t know how to do it. And, you know, I would, I would always recommend hiring a professional because you know, you, you wind up getting, if you’re doing it and you don’t know what you’re doing, you’re not gonna be able to measure those results and look at it. For some breweries doing that small maps had might be perfect. Others might be spending 200 bucks a month on Instagram ads might be better. And it’s hard to necessarily say it depends on your location depends on the type of brewery you are, and depends on what your goals are, I know it’s to move more liquid. But at the same time, you know, you can have some other things that are going on that might be beneficial to run those paid ads to. So that’s where I would start. The last thing is, is don’t forget about email and text messaging, like just don’t they’re gonna be your biggest things, especially God forbid if there’s another change and like pandemic breweries that we were working with that had taken our advice that had built email lists and built a way to communicate via text, they were in the best position when everything got shut down. And they were able to communicate with their clientele community, communicate with their community, let them know any updates. But more importantly, they were able to make sales really quick, they could shift. So always we’ll be building an email list and a customer list via email and text is a huge thing. That’s That’s great advice.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  21:29  

How about a How about a brewery that may be 10 10 15 years old that is already already has a presence, but maybe needs to reinvigorate reinvigorate that presence?

Marty McDonald  21:38  

Sure. I think where a lot of times, I’ve run into that, where they’re reluctant to go that next level on the website. So they built their website, and they got out of the, you know, Wix and Squarespace world. And they built their first WordPress site. And let’s just say it was 10 grand, perfectly adequate, good. But now they’re further down. They’re bigger brewery, they’re making money. And they’re really reluctant to spend 25 30,000 for a really good interactive website, because they think they don’t need it. And in some cases, they don’t, right. But in other cases, it’s part of your brand nowadays, right? Like, that’s like a huge part. And then they’ll spend, say, 30,000 hours on a video shoot, you know, that showcases their video or their brewery beautifully on video, and you go into a 10 cent website. You know what I mean? Like it doesn’t match. And, you know, you don’t have to spend a ton and always update it. But websites, as long as you build it on the right framework, and you have a good person running it, whether it’s an agency or somebody in house, that website in that framework can last you a long time, you put some time and effort into it. And you don’t necessarily have to drop a big number every two years on a new website, like some companies have to but for a brewery to have like a, you know, a basic solid website. And then they go into that next level where they’re in like 10 different states, and they’re doing production everywhere. And then they have these great logos and great labels and great video production and really good social media. And then you go to their website and you’re like, Whoa, I think this as you know, feels antiquated. And that’s one of the common things that I see Where’s reluctancy to do that, but then the other, the other side of it goes back to the communication piece, like email more, just email more, don’t be surprised like how well that’ll work and how well it’s received text a few more times. You don’t have to inundate people with messages, but let them know you’re there. Let them know what you’re doing. People love it, they really do and craft beer, it’s hard to anger somebody that’s a craft beer drinker by send them an extra email or two a month or a week. They really do want to know what’s going on. And you know, you hit them on a, you know, Thursday afternoon, and they’re like, you know, I’m gonna go to the brewery on Saturday and pick up something or at least have a pint or two and try something new.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  23:56  

That’s excellent advice. I know, I I know that one of my wine clubs or one of the breweries that I follow those emails show off my email feed. It’s a welcome. It’s a welcome message and a welcome distraction from whatever I’m supposed to be looking at. So they do resonate pretty well with me. It really does.

Marty McDonald  24:12  

I mean, it’s so funny is like, you know, it’s just odd that people are reluctant to do it. That’s all I can say is like, yeah, like can shake your head a little bit.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  24:21  

And they shouldn’t, because the tendency is you think you’re sending it out? Oh, it’s just another email on their box. But this may be the one email that that person wanted to read today.

Marty McDonald  24:30  

Exactly. Like I I wouldn’t say that I honestly would read probably 90% of the beer emails that come through, you know, to whatever email address I’m looking at a glance at them, not just because it has nothing to do with being in the business of like marketing breweries. What it really has everything to do with is I’m interested in that because it’s like a quote-unquote, hobby of mine. Like, I want to try something new. I want to see it and I want to find out when it’s available or if you have new hours or whatever. So it’s always fascinating. that people are reluctant to do that.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  25:01  

Oh, absolutely. So what’s the being your hobby? What’s the latest beer that you found or are enjoying right now?

Marty McDonald  25:07  

So right now, I’ve been big into it when we talked about this on my podcast was, you know, getting away from like, just a nonstop IPA train right. I still, I still love IPAs, like, but at the same time, it’s like, I’m kind of burnt out on them, right,, you know, and you try and find new things. And I always liked a good lager always liked a good Pilsner and our stout to like, just going back to that. And right now, the one that I have been enjoying the Brewing Company anyways, called New Trail. They’re in Pennsylvania, Williamsport, Pennsylvania, and, you know, they have all sorts of beers. Right. But they have a Pilsner that I just really like, you know, like, it’s just like, easy to drink. You kind of have that whole feel to it, where it’s like, has the taste right? It has like a great taste. No one say great taste less filling. It’s not Miller, like, by no means that even close is way better than that. But they have. They just it’s like, it’s simple yet complex like is the best way you can say it’s a Pilsner that has a lot of different things going on. But at the end of it, it’s a Pilsner. And you want to have another one and another one, you can have three or four and not feel like you’re super full. They have this other lager. It’s called Loyalsock lager. Really good, same, same kind of presence or same kind of feel like you have one of them and you’re like, yeah, just give me another cold one of those, right? Like, it’s not even one of those things where you’re sitting there kind of scratching your brain like, Oh, well, I just had this and I just had that and they did the same thing. I’ve been working through pretty much all their beers recently. I haven’t gotten to their IPAs yet, but they have a hazy IPA. They have a hazy double IPA they have is really good. I think it’s called layer layered. Don’t hold me to that. But I think that’s what it’s called. And it’s an imperial stout. So really, the new trail brewing, there’s your commercial, I don’t work with them. I just drink their beer, but I really have been enjoying that. And then outside of that, I’ve got this. Oh, man, I’m gonna butcher the name. It’s from Charlotte. I’m actually typing and looking here. I think it’s called pig something Pig Pounder Brewery in North Carolina. Really good beer

Drew Thomas Hendricks  27:19  

Pig Pounder.

Marty McDonald  27:20  

a buddy of mine was down there. He travels for his son’s there’s kids baseball and softball. And that says things like every place he goes he goes to a couple breweries and then buys a couple four-packs and brings them back and he was down there a couple of weeks ago and you probably back some of these and really good like another good brewery. I never really had anything from I think they won some awards. Who knows? But they have some great canner too. It’s pigpounder.com is the site with them either, but you should check it out. Like I like their their art can art and everything that they have going on. But their beer is really good too. I finally had it so I can give it a thumbs up. Awesome.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  28:06  

Yeah, I love the trend towards it. The craft brewers now focusing more on the Pilsners in the lagers you know too often it was just a IPAs IPA all day. But yeah, on the West Coast here we’ve got Burgeons which I mentioned you are on the podcast with the Burgeon Brewing one of my favorites in in Carlsbad and they just did a collaboration with Fall Brewing Company and event. Technically it’s a hopped Pale Ale, but it drinks like appear to me.

Marty McDonald  28:31  

There’s another one recently now I’m a big fan of dry hop pilsners. I have been for a long time. I can’t remember the one that got me hooked on it. It was definitely in the northeast. I think it was in mean, I don’t think it was Mean Brewing, but I think it was somebody up there but that was really good. And yeah, it’s like anything that gets me off the I love IPAs. I’ve been drinking IPAs for longer than most people too. I fell in love with them. When I was like 2122 a buddy of mine had a couple beers. I’m like, What is this bitter stuff. And it’s pretty good though for like when you want back then too is like you have one or two. You’re like okay, I’m good. But like, you kind of lose focus on some of these and it just is getting out of hand in

Drew Thomas Hendricks  29:14  

my opinion. Absolutely. There’s one though, that I had last week that totally restored my faith in the hazy IPAs because I’ve been getting a little tired of that lately.

Marty McDonald  29:23  

Hazy I can’t, I’m  just done

Drew Thomas Hendricks  29:26  

and this is and this isn’t I mean, where I get anywhere it’s that Stones new 4/20 drink before 4/20/2021 hazy IPA super young super fresh and not not too bitter. This Yeah, this is one that almost goes down almost like a waltz deck but it goes down like a Pilsner anything you can drink it in larger swallows

Marty McDonald  29:44  

Love it. Love it for a variety of reasons because what I love Stone, still one of my favorite breweries across the board there. But um, yeah, and I think you’re seeing like, like, I think a session IPAs are touch too light, there’s nothing they’re good, but they’re like a touch too light and it’s just trying Find that happy medium in between, like a 7% beer and like a 6% or five, you know, like, Can we get something that I mean, I’m not just saying I obviously know that middle number is six, but like, Can we get something that has just enough taste? That’s a little bit more than like a session but not in? I think everybody’s kind of working on that to be honest. And I think they’re just calling it different things because I think that’s what sells. I don’t think I know that’s what sells

Drew Thomas Hendricks  30:24  

Yeah, yeah, you can you can only drink so many 9% IPAs.

Marty McDonald  30:29  

So many, and then you’re done.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  30:32  

Yeah, they sneak up on you. So Marty, thank you so much for being on the podcast. today. We’ve been talking to Marty McDonald. Where can people learn more about you?

Marty McDonald  30:39  

The easiest way is just go to BadRhinoinc.com BAD RHINOinc.com and a bunch of stuff there. Check out us on YouTube. If you Google Bad Rhino, you’ll find out plenty about us. I have my own podcast as we were talking about today called Taps and Tees. And it’s on Spotify. Just go Taps and Tees podcast you’ll find it right there. Interview a lot of marketing people over the past year do the pandemic but I have a whole bunch of beer and golf content coming out over the next few months. I’m excited about and if you need anything, you can always just email us at info@badrhinoinc.com mentioned Drew’s podcast in the subject line. Somebody will get back to you at some point maybe not right away, but we’ll get back to you pretty quickly. Awesome. In

Drew Thomas Hendricks  31:20  

the book. The book is available on Amazon. If you’re a craft brewer looking to level up your marketing game, definitely check it out.

Marty McDonald  31:26  

Absolutely.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  31:27  

Well, thank you, Marty.

Marty McDonald  31:29  

No, thank you, Drew. I appreciate it.

Outro  31:35  

Thanks for listening to the Legends Behind the Craft podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.