Expanding Your Brand for Consumer Demands With John McDonnell

by Drew Hendricks
Last updated Jun 16, 2022

Legends Behind the Craft Podcast

Last Updated on June 16, 2022 by rise25

John McDonnell

John McDonnell is the former International President and COO of Patrón, where he was responsible for growing its revenue from 75 million to 600 million dollars. He is a worldwide motivational speaker, helping individuals and organizations achieve success in today’s global economy, build strong international brands, and leverage the power of teamwork. He served as the Chairman of the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States (DISCUS) and is now a Chairman of the Massachusetts Convention Center Authority. 

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Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn: 

  • John McDonnell’s secret to building an international tequila brand
  • John reveals the duty-free model in the spirits industry
  • How liquor brands can adapt to the evolving consumer segment
  • What is the stupid grandson theory?
  • John’s advice for creating a lasting brand legacy
  • How rising spirit companies can achieve success

In this episode with John McDonnell

When it comes to the spirits industry, consumer demands are rapidly advancing. With new generations shifting towards distilled liquor, brands must take measures to ensure they’re producing quality products that meet those demands. So, how can your brand market to the young consumer while maintaining a lasting legacy? 

John McDonnell suggests conducting in-depth consumer research through focus groups. These groups give customers the opportunity to sample products and provide feedback, allowing your brand to make profitable adjustments. And by steering clear of third-party distributors, you can sell your products directly to consumers for a more personable experience.

In today’s episode of Legends Behind the Craft, Drew Thomas Hendricks and Bianca Harmon sit down with John McDonnell to discuss expanding your liquor brand. John shares his advice for building an international brand, how liquor brands can adapt to dynamic consumer demands, and tips for creating a lasting legacy.

Resources Mentioned in this episode

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by Barrels Ahead.

Barrels Ahead is a wine and craft marketing agency that propels organic growth by using a powerful combination of content development, Search Engine Optimization, and paid search.

At Barrels Ahead, we know that your business is unique. That’s why we work with you to create a one-of-a-kind marketing strategy that highlights your authenticity, tells your story, and makes your business stand out from your competitors.

Our team at Barrels Ahead helps you leverage your knowledge so you can enjoy the results and revenue your business deserves.

So, what are you waiting for? Unlock your results today!

To learn more, visit barrelsahead.com or email us at hello@barrelsahead.com to schedule a strategy call.

Episode Transcript

Intro  0:03  

Welcome to the Legends Behind the Craft podcast where we feature top leaders in the wine and craft beverage industry with your host Drew Hendricks. Now let’s get started with the show

Drew Thomas Hendricks  0:19  

Drew Thomas Hendricks here. I’m the host of the Legends Behind the Craft podcast where I talk with leaders in writing craft beverage industry. past guests of Legends Behind the Craft include Michael Houlihan, founder of Barefoot Wines, Yuan Ji of Erstwile Mezcal, and Ryan Thompson 10th Mountain Whiskey. If you haven’t listened to these yet, come out and subscribe. Today’s episode is sponsored by Barrels Ahead the Barrels we work with you to implement a one of a kind marketing strategy, that your authenticity tells your story and connects you with your ideal customers. In short, we’ll pointers and craft beverage producers unlock their story to unleash their revenue. Go to barrelsahead.com today to learn more. Today, Bianca Harmon’s also joining us Bianca is a direct consumer marketing strategist at Barrels Ahead. If you want to level up your direct to consumer game, give her a call. How’s it going, Bianca?

Bianca Harmon  1:10  

It’s going good Drew. I am excited to talk with John today and learn more about building a liquor brand.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  1:19  

Yes, yes. Today’s guest is John McDonnell. And he’s a true legend in the spirits industry. As President of Patron expanded the brand into over 130 countries and grew its revenue from 75 million to 600 million. Impressive. Welcome to the show, John.

John McDonnell  1:36  

Thanks for having me.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  1:38  

Thanks for being on. So John, you’re a busy guy. I’ve gotta just jump straight to it. What’s the secret to building an international brand?

John McDonnell  1:46  

Lot’s of luck. The Secret to Building Patron globally was because the two biggest players in the tequila space at the time, Diageo and Pernell. were asleep at the switch. So the way we attacked it was we went into duty free shops. And notice that they had all expensive brands, you know, 3040 $50 and above. But when you looked at the tequila category, the only thing that was selling was $1 bottles of Cueva when Sauza. So we went to the operators and said, Hey, how come you don’t have a super premium to kill on your portfolio? And they all scratch their heads? And said, I really don’t know why that’s good question. They said, well give us a shot. So we attack the duty free outlets first. And that’s what got Patron started globally. And then, the other thing is, when you talk about tequila, you ask anybody Hey, do you have a tequila story? And nine out of 10 people are gonna give you a very bad to kill a story. Because they just shoot it in the you know, get sick during their college days. Right? So we started sampling people on Patron. And we told the tasting people do not call it tequila. Just call it Patron. Patron’s the brand, forget the category. And then people would SIP as go, Oh my God, that’s great. What is it? We say that’s a tequila. And they said we don’t ever remember tequila tasting like that. So it worked out well for us. And then you know, the rest is history. They sold it for $5.1 billion to Bacardi. Hmm.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  3:42  

It’s quite an accent.

Bianca Harmon  3:43  

I didn’t realize that they sold to Bacardi. When did they do that? John?

John McDonnell  3:49  

Don’t call me exactly to the date about three to four years ago. And date Patron sorry, Bacardi had owned about 27% of Bacardi, Bacardi and 27% of the Truong and that was through a charitable organization that they ended up acquiring that percentage. So they will always figure to be the lead dog to take out patrol.

Bianca Harmon  4:18  

Interesting, and then that’s when you made your exit.

John McDonnell  4:22  

I made my exit a couple years before that because I was friends with another gentleman in the industry and he wanted me to help him take his brand internationally. So I was I was up for another challenge. At the time.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  4:38  

There was a time your time Patron really kind of emphasized this sustainability and environmental aspects of the brand as well. Did that help? What role did that play in its growth?

John McDonnell  4:49  

Well as a plant based product coming from an agave plant, it played a huge role in the brand success. It were also spent a lot of times giving away money to charities. And, you know, that comes back to multiple ways. When people know that you’re doing good, you know, today’s generation of millennials and IGN, you know, they’re very interested in three things digital convenience, social responsibility. And lastly, sustainability. So when I was interviewing for jobs growing up in the industry, I never thought about asking an employer for what do you do to give back to society? You know, now, when I interview people, you know, you have to convince them that they should come work for you, because you give back and, you know, care about the world. Very different place than when I started, you know, 3839 years ago.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  5:49  

It’s really changed, you got to have the social responsibility. And I like to, just to jump back in, you’re talking about the duty free stores? That is a great as far as getting placed in do every Duty Free Store, does it have? Is it? Is it a central outlet to get them? Or is each Duty Free Store run independently in each country?

John McDonnell  6:07  

That’s a very good question. So the number one player in duty free is a company called do free. So they have locations globally. But they no one player, like controls all the United States duty free stores. So it’s a it’s fragmented, but there’s about five to six players that, you know, control over 50% of the duty free shops. And, you know, I don’t know if you’re aware of this. In dude, when you’re talking about duty free, they have to bid on the concession. So take Boston as an example. International shops as the concessionaire at Boston duty free. And they also have Houston, Philadelphia, New York, and they require to make 68 to 70% profit margin on each sale. And the reason the profit margins is so big is because most airport authorities take Massachusetts Airport Authority, they take the first 50% of the profit. And that’s the model for duty free. So while it’s a very important channel, and it’s, you know, if you’re not there people don’t be it was a global brand. It’s extremely expensive. It’s the least profitable channel, in the spirits industry.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  7:33  

Yeah, I would think so. Yeah. 50% Yeah, that’s a lobster level.

John McDonnell  7:40  

tos. I used a different term, but that’s okay.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  7:48  

Call it as I heard it. But as we’re as you’re building this global brand across there, you’ve got this whole changing consumer and I know you have a you’ve got a you know, your your wealth, or sought after speaker. How is the consumer segment change, this evolved over the last over the years? And how does the liquor brand confront that and deal with it?

John McDonnell  8:10  

Well, you know, the nice thing about being in the spirits industry of total beverage alcohol is that the demographics are working in our favor. Now. More and more people are drinking spirits at the expense of wine and beer. And part of what you’re trying to do when you’re addressing, let’s call it people 35. And under, you have to show that you are socially responsible and care about sustainability. So I just returned from London, and I was speaking at an e-commerce conference called E tail. And the majority of people at that conference were 35. And under, and I was talking about the topic of my presentation was high tech, high touch. And what’s happening in the spirits industry now in many industries, is that technology is pulling us away from social interaction. So in an increasingly high tech world, there’s the need for human interaction. So let me give you an example of this, you know, Acquainted back to liquor banking, the banking industry started forcing us to do our business online. So and this only worsened during the pandemic. So 70% of Americans do their banking either on their computer or on their smartphone. And then the banks all of a sudden realize, holy smokes, I don’t know any of my customers. So how are you going to sell goods and services to customers? stead you have no relationship with. So capital bank Capital One Bank started cleverly putting Pete’s coffee shops in their banks. And that attracts the I Gen and millennials. And now they go in there and get their coffee Capital One offers free financial advice. They give free snacks and free Wi Fi. And I don’t know where you’re based. But if you walk by any Capital One Bank, and this is seven days a week, you can’t get in them. It just just slammed. So it’s created by crate and barrels and other good examples. If they’re starting to test restaurants in their stores. So you sit down,

Drew Thomas Hendricks  10:48  

and you can model the meatballs. And yeah,

John McDonnell  10:52  

in you using the silverware, the plates, the glasses, Oh, I like them, it creates a reason for you to buy on the spot. Yeah. And they may get you to stay there. You know, I was thinking back when my children were smaller. I used to take them in a Barnes and Noble bookstore, put them in the kids books section, go grab a cup of coffee at Starbucks, which was in the Barnes and Noble. And they they were playing I got to read the newspaper. And yes, I am I still hold the newspaper and read it. And like millennials, and it was a great day. And so liquor is liquor is the same way, how does that translate? What so what we have to do is we need to create, in store tasting opportunities so that we can get the consumer to come over to our tasting booth. And then we can have a one to one conversation with them. And then they taste the brand. If they like it, they can purchase it on the spot. There’s nothing worse than buying something that you don’t know if you like it or not. So then, and then you’re capturing their email addresses in another thing we did was, everybody likes to belong to a club. So we had a special Patron club that people joined. And then we sent them nice little gifts, you know, a couple times a year to create that one to one relation shift.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  12:26  

That’s some good tips that at one to one is so important, across all aspects right now. Why? What do you think the impetus was like, for the rise of Spirits Within the younger generation and the move away from wine and beer?

John McDonnell  12:43  

I say it’s for from a health perspective, people, you know, we’re cognizant of, you know, they drink beer, they get full. And then wine is, you know, just a lot of a lot of sugars. And, you know, think about if you’re sitting at a restaurant, you’re chit chatting with a bunch of people, if you’re at a company function, and you know, always turn to look at the person you’re talking to. And the waiter is his motivation is he wants to keep emptying bottles of wine and bring in more. So at the end of the day, you have no idea how many glasses of wine you drank, because the guy’s filling up the glass all the time. So, and plus the renaissance of mixed spirits. You know, bourbon and rye have come back in a big way. And also during the pandemic, we did, we did some consumer research 32% of consumers now believe that his self proclaimed mixologists because what happened during the first few months of the pandemic, we were all getting our liquor delivered to our our homes. And then, you know, we ignored what Dr. Fauci said, and then we got all our friends over and we entertained at home because we needed to humor human interactions. So the revival of cocktails has come back in a big way.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  14:16  

Oh, absolutely. The craft cocktail is really in its, it’s really in a renaissance time right now. come a long way from Tom Cruise. It’s cocktail movie.

John McDonnell  14:25  

Yes, this is true.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  14:30  

That’s okay. I want to shift with no segue to something we talked about in the pre show to a term I’ve never heard before. The stupid grandson theory. Okay. So gotta tell me.

John McDonnell  14:43  

Alright, so I’ll give you a real life example of this. And this is what I’m going to tell you is now a case study at Harvard Business School. So I used to work for a company called Josephy Seagram and Sons liquor company, they They had brands that you’ll recognize Captain Morgan rum crown, Royal Chivas, Regal Martell, Cognac, Glenlivet, just to name a few. They were the biggest and baddest liquor company on the planet. And it was started by a gentleman called Samuel Bronfman. He was the gentleman at a Canada, Montreal, Canada. So he started, he was a bootlegger, and his main competitor was a guy named Joe Kennedy, who was Father of President Kennedy. And so Samuel Bronfman built this company, primarily in the United States. And he turned it over to his oldest son, Edgar Bronfman senior, who grew the business into a global empire. And then this company, also on 24.5%, of DuPont Chemical Company, the money, the dividends they were making, just on that investment went through the roof. So this company, Seagram was making a darn homemade tool because now I’m dating myself, but approximately $800 million EBITDA per year. He turned the site over to was his son, Edgar Bronfman, Jr, who was the grandson, Edgar Bronfman, Jr. Decided that DuPont chemical company wasn’t sexy enough. So he sold off that investment. And he bought universal theme parks and music. And of course, they were big in tapes and records and all this when people weren’t buying tapes and records anymore. So he eventually ran the company into the ground. And the consultants told me Yeah, to sell the company. So that is the stupid grandson theory. So a lot of companies never make it to the fourth generation. So Diageo, and Pernod ended up buying half the brands of Seagram each. And you’re familiar with Pernod Ricard I take it. Yes. Well, Parnell. Ricard was really just an Irish whiskey company. And of course, they had Pernod, and a few other brands, but they were really nothing in the scheme of things. And this now the second biggest liquor company in the world, because of the screw up by Edgar Bronfman, Jr. And, yeah, so it’s just, really, it’s, it’s disappointing. It ended up that way.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  17:43  

Absolutely. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Trickle down somewhat. By the time the third generation comes around there. They’ve lost touch with the history and the and the motivation, and they want to kind of carve out their own their own interests.

John McDonnell  17:58  

That’s exactly correct.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  18:01  

As you’re as you’re growing, so what advice do you have for somebody setting up a legacy that wants to build a brand that spans more than a little more than just don’t give it to grandson? But how does somebody build a brand that lasts multi generations past three and four?

John McDonnell  18:18  

Have you have the the easy answer to that is have a very good succession plan in place? That’s not necessarily you know, your family? It is I? I finished watching. I can’t think of the name of it, you’ll know, you know, the Uber show recently.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  18:38  

Oh, we didn’t crash? No, no, that was that was we worked.

John McDonnell  18:41  

Right. I just finished we work also. And, and I think about those companies, and how they were taking other people’s money and just spending it, you know, on themselves, not thinking about the shareholder. And that’s happened in the liquor business as well. A lot of people that are starting out, the founders, they might be great at creating new brands, but they’re not necessarily the right person to be the CEO. So you need to know, you got to look in the mirror, and be really brutally honest with yourself and say, this is a great idea. But let me give it to somebody else that knows the industry to build it. The spirits industry, it’s a very small tight knit fraternity. And if you don’t know somebody in that fraternity, the likelihood of you succeeding is slim to none. So let me give you an example of why it’s so small in in the 80s. I was working in Florida, the state of Florida, and I had 14 to 15 Different liquor distributors. And then again, going back to the Seagram liquor company, they took the decision that there was just too many liquor does To repeaters. So they started out on consolidating the liquor distributors. So we went from 14 to 15 to only one. So, in the United States now, you might have you have two major liquor distributors in the country, and you know, a third much smaller, and then maybe a few others. So the options of getting into a liquor distributor are extremely challenging. Now, if you don’t, if you’re not in the know, the chances are, you’re going to have a very difficult time latching on to a distributor. And we’re very heavily regulated as an industry. That’s

Drew Thomas Hendricks  20:43  

something like lifted that’s kind of empowering small craft producers to be able to get into the three tier system seems like there’s there’s some headway being made to kind of unconsolidated the industry.

John McDonnell  20:56  

There, there absolutely is the challenge, and I’m not speaking about that company specifically. But there are a lot of smaller companies in certain states that they give you another option, but they might only be able to call on three or 400 accounts in that state, they don’t have the reach that you need to truly build a brand. You know,

Drew Thomas Hendricks  21:21  

whatever, the smaller ones, they almost seem like kind of a hybrid of the direct consumer like it’s within the three tier but a lot of it’s up to you to get the product out there to the market

John McDonnell  21:33  

that you knit hit the nail on the head with that. A lot of times when you go to a distributor and say, Hey, can you carry me? They say, Go show us some business first, and then we’ll take you why. So you know, I’m sure I’ll get a lot of backlash after my next statement. But sometimes look at distributors are looked upon as just being glorified. logistics companies, you have to do all the work and they just make the delivery for you.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  22:07  

But yeah, you’re talking about Captain Morgan’s? Yeah. So,

John McDonnell  22:10  

so people, you know, again, shy about sampling it, and it was 80 proof when it was introduced. So, the company spent a fortune there wasn’t an account you would go into, that didn’t have a Captain Morgan spiced rum, cleat mirror on the wall. We have. So we’re great. I’m glad you can relate. And they so the company said, we’re bleeding money here. So they called us all to a national meeting. And they rolled out Captain Morgan spiced from 48 proof. And the team went ballistic. We don’t want that. So ultimately, they were going to discontinue it. But they decided that they would compromise introduced Captain Morgan spiced from at 70 proof. So so if they didn’t make that decision, they would have discontinued it. And now the brands four to 5 million cases in the in the US. And then I think the other store you were referring to was Bacardi ignored that there was such a thing as a spiced rum category. So had the cardi seen Captain Morgan spiced rum come out? If they had launched immediately, they could have killed Captain Morgan, but they ignored it. And I can’t remember the exact dates but like eight to 10 years after Captain Morgan came out, they launched Bacardi Spice Rum. And the consumer said, No, you’re not a spice from that step belongs to Captain Morgan. You’re a white rum. And they’ve tried three times in the last close to 40 years to come up with a Bacardi spiced rum and have failed miserably each time.

Bianca Harmon  24:05  

Wow. So they just missed their mark, basically.

John McDonnell  24:08  

Yes, it’s. So you need to do consumer research and make sure that you understand what you’re launching before you do.

Bianca Harmon  24:20  

Do you think that doing the research in those duty free stores is a good starting point for somebody like you did or that would be more for distribution purposes?

John McDonnell  24:32  

No more, you know, will be more of a consumer insights. Which let me share another story with you that the owner of Tron in the CEO told me that they wanted me to launch a drone line patrolling coconut and patrolling. And I said, I am absolutely not doing that until we do focus groups. and show this to the consumer and get their feedback. So I’ve participated in numerous consumer research projects in my career. Never in my life have I witnessed the anger and outrage of the Patron consumer. When we showed them these packages. They said, you already have flavors, your flavors is silver represent Oh, and then yay, hope. If you’re not a, you know, Patron line Patron and orange Patron and coconut type of brand. And if you launch that we won’t drink them. So we never launched them in, I’d say six months to a year later quibble launched flavors, and they failed miserably.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  25:45  

The quinoa might be the worst tasting thing I’ve ever tried.

Bianca Harmon  25:53  

Let people add their own flavor and just what you’re good at making.

John McDonnell  25:58  

That’s bingo. That’s exactly correct. Yeah, stay

Bianca Harmon  26:04  

in everything.

John McDonnell  26:07  

agree completely. You gotta stay stay the course on your mission.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  26:12  

Listen, now, we’re talking about Patron. I think true to the mission and just the purity of the brand. You always have such a distinctive like natural glass bottle. I mean, that really just emphasize the whole high end pneus of it, but also the naturalness of it.

John McDonnell  26:32  

That’s correct. In every the, the paper tissue that went around the the bottle in the box, were all done by hand. Even as big as the brand has grown. All that was done by hand. Which people really appreciated in the court is distinctive on the packaging as well. Yeah,

Drew Thomas Hendricks  26:58  

it’s fantastic. But when a shift is we’re kind of getting towards the end of this thing. And I would really want to know, how do you stay motivated in this fierce industry over the last, you know, your tenure, and all your jobs?

John McDonnell  27:13  

Definitely know when to leave a job and go on to the next venture is because if you don’t, you need to keep challenging yourself. So I mean, I don’t change jobs, like today’s generation, so obviously, but the I, I just like to look at other projects. And then, you know, on the side, I invest in brands, that keeps me motivated. I, I mentor people that are trying to start new brands. And I’d say I would get at least a call a week on somebody showing me projects. So if I have time, I always try to sit down and see what people are trying to develop or introduce. And I’ll share another story with you. Most projects that people present to me, I say to them very nicely, please don’t do this. And then most of the time, they get very annoyed with me, because I try to be as honest as I can be. And then I have to ask them, Well, how much money do you want to put against this project? And they say, two to $3 million? So I say I’ll tell you what, why don’t you give me a million dollars, you keep a million dollars, and then you’re going to be ahead of the game. Because the chances of this succeeding are slim to none. You need a boatload of money to launch a brand. You know, because you you will not succeed if unless you do some social media, in programs with the distributors and retailers. And when I say programs with the retailers, I don’t mean under the table money, I mean tastings and promotions, etc.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  28:58  

How does the young or how does a fledgling entrepreneurial craft spirit company make

John McDonnell  29:05  

it a need to have a very good board of directors that come from the industry. It needs to be well rounded, somebody that understands distribution, somebody that understands marketing, in someone that understands finance and has the relationships because unless again, sorry to repeat myself, but if you don’t have somebody that knows the people, you’re dead man walking? Sure,

Drew Thomas Hendricks  29:33  

hey, I have an avid having a connected board and also an independent board to preserve me from that stupid grandson.

John McDonnell  29:39  

That’s That’s correct. I don’t know. Did you ever read the the article or stories about Jeffrey and Myles, who was the CEO of General Electric. He he had a board that don’t hold me to this but I think they were paid in the vicinity of three $100,000 a year, plus travel, and everything that Jeffrey Immelt proposed to the board. They did exactly what you said they’ve rubber stamped, whether it was good for the shareholders or not. In fact, Jack Welch said that his biggest regret in life, was proposing the Jeffrey Immelt took over General Electric, because the stock never recovered.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  30:26  

Yeah, I can’t Yeah, we just do need to both emphasize I mean, you can’t have a Pepa board of directors and expect yourself to grow beyond just the singular vision of the founder. And you got to kind of ask yourself, if you were gonna just be a founder, do you really need that board? Or do you really want to use it the way that it’s intended as this independent oversight?

John McDonnell  30:47  

Yeah, I mean, I just I keep thinking about the show. We were talking about Uber, and Arianna Huffington. She was on the board and just did whatever he wanted. And still a bit of a rant.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  31:00  

Yeah, I haven’t watched that one. Yeah, that’s, that’s next on the list are finished, finished success or finished succession, which is also very

John McDonnell  31:09  

well, you’re going to be blown away by the Uber. Mini Series.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  31:16  

Oh, I can’t wait to see it. So John is kind of wrapping down here. Is there anything else we haven’t asked you that we want to talk about?

John McDonnell  31:26  

What do I have time for one more quick story? Absolutely. Okay, so that’s exactly. That’s a great segue. I want to talk about Absolut Vodka. No, so I want to hear about that. So, in the early 80s, Stolichnaya, was really rockin and rollin brand in, the Russians shut down a Korean jetliner out of the sky. And everybody was in the streets pouring solid Schneier down the sewer. So absolute happened to be waiting in the wings. And that’s when absolut started to grow at the expense of Stolichnaya. In we all know what a great brand absolut is in grew to be, but they also made a fatal error. They, the research told them and I was working with absolute at the time, you need to come up with a father of absolute brand, something that’s more premium. And they Swedish government owned absolut at the time and they’ve refused to do that. And a brand named kettle one came in above them. And they took that spot and absolute. When they saw this, then they reacted and try to introduce their own brand, under a different name and a different package and they failed miserably. And that’s another example of listen to what the research tells you. And they refused because they thought they were smarter than everybody else.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  32:58  

I remember that is that is great. That’s a great story on that. What what did absolute come out with what was their other brand?

John McDonnell  33:09  

Oh, it was called Sundsvall thought i Okay. Yeah, it was it was had like a mustard type of cap in a more slender bottle. And they just couldn’t get arrested you know, Stoli didn’t make the same mistake they came out with Stoli elite so at least you know if you’re a stolen consumer you have somewhere to go

Drew Thomas Hendricks  33:34  

Yeah, that’s it. So in today’s environment with Stalley no one’s really it’s taken well hit with the current current conflict in Ukraine.

John McDonnell  33:47  

Yeah, glad glad love those people that fighters Absolutely.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  33:54  

Well, John, where can people find out more about you?

John McDonnell  33:59  

They can go to my website McDonnell Speaks. Yes. MC do double N E double L speaks and I’ll go to my LinkedIn page John McDonnell MC do double N E double L. And I’ll accept your invitation.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  34:17  

Absolutely. Make some have some great presentation topics. What type of places do you speak out for people that may be curious and engaging

John McDonnell  34:27  

or happy to speak anywhere I speak at different marketing groups, I guess lecture or colleges or you know master’s degree programs. But a lot of you know digital and e-commerce conferences now you know in any obviously drinks industry organizations that will have me

Drew Thomas Hendricks  34:53  

for Well, I gotta say I felt felt the knowledge.

John McDonnell  34:58  

Well, I really appreciate You’re reaching out and setting this up and given me the time.

Bianca Harmon  35:03  

Yeah, it was really nice talking to you, John. Very knowledgeable. Thank you.

John McDonnell  35:07  

Thanks. And will you send me a link to this when it’s available? I absolutely will.

Drew Thomas Hendricks  35:15  

Thank you so much, John. Yeah.

John McDonnell  35:17  

Alright. Have a great weekend. Thanks for having me.

Outro  35:27  

Thanks for listening to the Legends Behind the Craft podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.